Episode #68

Athlete: Kate Courtney

“Building Mental Toughness”

Kate: One of the things I learned through those experiences is that mental toughness is not a character trait. It's a skill.

Stef: This week on the Voice in Sport podcast, we have the pleasure of speaking with Kate Courtney, a professional mountain biker, team USA member, red bull athlete and world cup champion. Kate graduated from Stanford, where she studied human biology while also riding professionally. She rode for team USA in the 2020 Tokyo Olympics and has been writing for the Scott SRAM mountain bike team since 2019, winning the UCI mountain bike world cup in 2019, which made her the first American to do so in 17 years.

In this episode, Kate shares the biggest factors of her success. She dives into the importance of mental toughness as a skill that we continue to build over the years. Kate shares with us how WHOOP data has helped her recover and rest as well as build up the intuition of how her own body works and what it needs.

We are so excited to sit down and talk with Kate about her journey in sport, how she builds her mental toughness, how she focuses on recovery and rest and the power of mindset. Welcome to the Voice in Sport podcast. Kate, we're so excited to have you here with us today.

Kate: Thanks for having me. It's great to be here.

Stef: You are our first mountain biker on the Voice in Sport podcast. So, I'm really excited to dive into just how you started and how you got into this incredible sport. And then seeing the success that you've had over the years is so inspiring. So, I'm sure you played lots of different sports growing up and you probably didn't start with mountain biking as your key sport.

So let's start there with your journey. How did you make that decision to, you know, to go into mountain biking and where did it all start?

Kate: Yeah, it's a great one because mountain biking is maybe a less mainstream sport than you typically cover. For me, I think it happened in two stages. I like to say I grew up riding mountain bikes. I grew up at the base of Mount Tamelpais where mountain biking was originally invented, so it was definitely part of the culture.

 But it was never a sport to me. It was always something I kind of did on the weekend for fun. It was a way to adventure to have great snacks and spend time with my dad. And then it wasn't until high school that I kind of discovered this competitive side of the sport. Up until that moment, I would say you know, I ran Cross Country.

I ski raced. I horseback rode. I did gymnastics. I played soccer. I did all the mainstream sports, and then started mountain bike racing my freshman year as part of a high school mountain bike team. And that was kind of where I found a home for my competitive spirit. It was like all these things about me that really lit up on the bike.

It was mental and tactical and physical. And there were just so many things that I was drawn to. And also that I felt uniquely kind of fit me. Like I, I love endurance sports. I love the aspect of that kind of training and progression and those marginal gains as well as just the fun of not just riding your mountain bike, but also competing on it.

So I think for me, all of those experiences growing up really kind of coalesced into this, this love of the sport that took off quite quickly in high school.

Stef: It's so incredible and amazing that you started your freshman year of high school, and then just a few seasons later, you began competing for the US National team and the Whole Athlete Development Program. So, how did you move from like, starting so quickly in this sport to just rising to that national level? And what advice would you have to girls that have aspirations maybe to do the same thing in this sport.

Kate: Absolutely. I think one of my advantages was that I didn't know much about the sport of mountain biking when I began. So, I was really focused on kind of that next little increment in front of me. Okay. If I, if I'm good for my town, what if I'm good for my county? Or what if I could be one of the best in the state, and then, you know, working up from there.

And I think. You know, for me, that that challenge level really met my skill level at every stage and then kind of ramped up slowly. So I started racing in the high school mountain bike league, and that actually, when I was a freshman, we had such a competitive league. I think, you know, the top five girls in the north Cal league or the top five girls in the nation.

So I kind of got lucky in some ways being exposed to that level early on, and also having the whole athlete team you know, based five minutes from my house. So I kind of had the chance to be exposed to the fun side of competition, dip my toe in the water a little bit learn what it was about, but also be able to kind of look up at, oh, this is what it looks like to do this more seriously and start to, you know, incorporate some of those things.

 I got on a training plan. I was working on technical skill. I you know, was part of this team and we traveled and raced, and I feel like that enabled me to kind of, at every point set, set my sights a little bit higher, not say, okay, I want to go to the Olympics, but say, oh, I want to go to nationals. And I think for me, those little steps allowed me to be really excited about my progress in the sport and feel, feel really good about each step that I took forward.

And then of course, you know, the biggest one was being able to compete internationally as part of Team USA and that opportunity became a possibility my junior year of high school. And we actually had junior World Cups at the time. They've since unfortunately discontinued the junior category, they only start as U23s now.

So, you have to wait until you're 18 or 19. But for me that was kind of that next big jump and it was, it was much bigger, I would say than all the steps before, but it also was well matched with my ability level at the time and with my aspirations and I felt you know, encouraged to step it up.

Stef: I love it. It's so inspiring. And one of the big things that we're doing at Voice in Sport is connecting incredible pro athletes like you to high school and college athletes who have these aspirations to go to that next level, but might not know quite how to get there. So that's why we developed our mentorship program.

And so it was one of my key questions to you as a sport. That's not as visible you know, on TV to young girls who were your biggest role models? And did you have mentors along the way to help you get to where you are?

Kate: Yeah, that's a great question. And I think mentorship has been incredibly important to me at every stage in my career. I would say early on as a young athlete. I actually looked up to ski racers. I grew up ski racing. I wanted to be a great ski racer. I was not very good. I was very mediocre. But I saw a lot of athletes like Lindsay Vaughn, who really showed that hard work pays off.

And that strength is the best goal. To build that strength, to be really strong, to be a fierce competitor. And that's something that I think, you know, before our generation was not necessarily as accepted or promoted for female athletes. So for me, I was really drawn to that ethos, and I think it really encouraged me when I found the sport that I could excel at and then I loved and kind of fit my physiology and work style. It allowed me to have that kind of role model, although it wasn't in my sport. And then I would say once I started racing, I was surrounded by role models. I had a teammate Leah Davidson for five years on the Specialized team.

And we would share a room at every World Cup. So, we were in these like tiny little closets in Europe sleeping five inches apart. And I would say that was a really formative experience for me, not just seeing, okay, what can the sport do for you? Where can it take you, but also the way that Leah approached everything she did.

 And I think that's something that I find really important with mentorship and I'm sure as is happening at Voice in Sport, but, to be able to communicate the experience of racing, the experience of working your way up, the experience of reaching that top level, rather than just that kind of goal based aspect.

And we can set out that development pathway, but what does it feel like to do that and how do you do it well, and in a way that's balanced and keeps it fun and is motivating. And that's something that I really think we learn best from role models, not from just looking at someone's trajectory.

Stef: Absolutely. Well, and at any point in your early career before you got to college, did you think about quitting? And if you did, what brought you back?

Kate: Yeah. I haven't had many moments where I really thought about quitting. One of my favorite early stories in my career was the first two World Cups that I got to go to as a junior racer. I was actually supposed to go to a local camp in Europe and I couldn't go because of my final schedule.

So I thought I was out for the year, wasn't going to be able to go to Europe. And then the US team decided to send me to the World Cups instead. And I got this opportunity to go. It was me and six guys, and that was the US team and none of them are juniors. So I was the only junior racer. All the boys were 18 or older.

So, that was kind of a, of a big opportunity for me. And at the first capitalize, I was 10th. It was the Nova Masto World Cup in Czech Republic where we still compete today. And at the time that was like an amazing result for me. I think the juniors that had come kind of the years before me had all been in like the thirties or forties.

And so being top 10 was this huge moment I thought, Wow. Okay. Well, I flew from America last minute. I'm jet lagged. I haven't really trained, I haven't competed in Europe. Imagine what I could do if I really had the tools. And then the next weekend we had another World Cup and my parents actually flew over between the two because they had kind of assumed that I would be, you know, in that 30th, 40th range and when all of a sudden I was in the top 10, they were like we're missing this, we're missing this like World Cup debut. This is a huge thing. And they had the flexibility and you know, opportunity to travel over. And that next race I had my parents there. I've gotten some UCI points. I start on the second row all of a sudden.

And I'm like, oh man, imagine, I was 10th last weekend., What's possible? I ended up crashing right out of the start. I like crash on all the rock gardens. It's one of the only races in my career that I DNFed. And I had a moment with my mom afterwards. I went up to her and she was like, wow. You know, that looks really hard.

She goes, you know, we can just go home and you can quit. You know, you don't have to do this. You never have to do it again if you don't want. And at the time I was pretty disappointed, pretty upset, and I remember just like having this visceral reaction, like, no, I really want to do this. And it was almost like I said it before I believed it.

And then once I said it, I was like, oh wow, I do really want to do this. There's something in me that's really like drawn to this challenge and that combination of a little bit of success and like a big failure, I think was a huge motivator for me early in my career to see I have enough confidence that I think it's possible for it to go well.

And I know what that feels like when you put that good race together. And I think, you know, that's what I really want. And I also had this big failure that showed me, wow, I have a long way to go. If I want to do this, I really need to step it up. I need technical training. I need physical training. I need mentally to be ready for these races, but I think I can do it, and I really want to. And so that's maybe an moment where I thought about, you know, the possibility of not doing it, but in that moment also found some kind of inner fire to pursue it.

Stef: I love that inner fire. I mean, I think that really explains athletes, you know, or anybody who's passionate about driving change or accomplishing something like you have to find that inner fire. And if you, if you lost that inner fire, it can be hard to get it back. So, you know, what's really kept you going over the years.

You know, when you get out of the starting gates and you DNF, what have you learned over all of these years of the mindset to have when you have those moments? Because you can quickly lose your fire. You know when you're out of the gate like that, and two gates down or down the course for five seconds and you're out, what now can you pass on to the girls that might face some of those challenges early on in their careers?

 Maybe before they really get to where they want to be, what would you say to those girls today

Kate: Yeah, I think, you know, for me, I think one of the things I learned through those experiences is that mental toughness is not a character trait. It's a skill. And that's something, you know, for me, growing up in all these different sports, I love being called mentally tough. I loved being, you know, the person that kept going when there was a challenge or, you know, bounced back quickly.

And that was always a compliment you're you're resilient. You're mentally tough. And it was definitely kind of portrayed as something that you were either had or didn't have you're born with, or you weren't, and it was necessary to be an athlete. And for me, in 2016, I had a really interesting experience. I took the spring off Stanford. I tried to make the Olympic team and I failed to do so. I was, you know, waiting up at midnight to find out if I made the discretionary spot, and I didn't get selected. And that next weekend I had world championships and, you know, crashed two minutes in and just like, could not fight in that race. We like to say like the governor was on, like, I just had one speed and I couldn't push.

And I didn't know if it was my mind or my body or both, but I had this experience where I was like, Oh my god, am I not mentally tough anymore? Do I not have the resilience? Do I don't have the ability to fight back and push back and double down when I face a challenge? Cause that's something I had thought was you know, innate to me. And that's actually, when I started working with a sports psychologist and it was kind of a panicked call because I had a World Cup the next weekend I had, you know, not made the Olympic team. I had had this really disappointing race and I had seven days to turn it around. And I started working with the sports psychologist. And, you know, obviously there's only so much you can do in a few days, but the main thing we focused on was just having a really good mental plan, having really good things, to focus on having really specific, incremental goals. Okay, I want to be in the top 10 on this start, or I want to navigate this rock garden.

I have a really specific way that I want to go down it, and I want to nail that every lap. And so we have these goals and I went into the next race, and I place second. And I felt like, you know, in contrast, so the weekend before I'd found this way to be free from the pressure and anxiety that had in some way held me back in the previous race. And so I felt like the combination of those experiences, again, a success and a failure taught me that mental strength, mental toughness, resilience. It's something that you can build. It's a skill that you can train. It's something you can get help with, and that you can strengthen over many, many years. And it's not something that is a character trait that you have, or don't have, and it's not something that you can lose in an instant. And I think that would have helped me a lot to know growing up.

Stef: Oh, I think that's so powerful what you said. And I wish I had that understanding when I was a younger athlete of just like the importance of mental skill training and like how to think more holistically about the experience of sport. Because I definitely feel a little bit, like I was tunnel vision when I was in middle school and high school with my dreams of becoming an Olympic athlete or being on this division one team.

And I just, I feel now looking back at it, if I could kind of take a step back and see like the different components of what makes up a really amazing experience in sport, I think I would have had a slightly different approach or just feeling as I went through my journey. So, that's a big part of like, what we like to talk about at Voice in Sport is how do we think differently about our journeys?

 For all of us that are a little older, that like looking back, what would we do differently? How would we reframe things differently? I wanted then, sort of, take this reframing idea into the next part of your journey, because you went from high school, actually into college at Stanford University, and unlike a lot of swimming or basketball or, you know, other sports where colleges have varsity teams, Stanford did not.

So, they didn't have a mountain biking program. And so in that same year, you also signed professionally with Specialized Bikes. And some of those athletes, you know, chose to really forego, going to college and going straight to pro, and you made that decision to do this for your journey. So, I would love to hear that moment in time for you, which a lot of our members of the Voice in Sport community are going through right now is that decision of, well, what do I do?

Do I go pro? Do I go to school? What path do I go? What path is right? And, what would you tell yourself now back in high school now that you've gone through what you've gone through, how do you have the right mindset in that moment when you're in high school and you're trying to figure out what to do?.

Kate: Yeah, I think everyone's journey is probably so different. And, you know, in a sport like mountain biking, especially for me at that time, I certainly was in no position to make a full living doing it, and to support myself in a way that made it a really difficult decision, I would say. So, for me, it wasn't something I weighed that heavily.

I think I really cared about school. I love school. I wanted to go to college. I got into a school that I was really excited to go to, and then it just became practically about making the two work. And, I certainly do, you know, looking back, see that there were ways in which being a student athlete probably held me back on the bike.

But, from this vantage point, I actually think it held me back the right amount and, you know, allowed me to have a more well-rounded experience and to treat those development years like development years, there's different, you know, peak ages in different sports. But in a lot of these endurance sports, it takes a lot of years to build that foundation, to be able to handle the volume to layer week over week and month over month and year over year of consistent training, and being a college student certainly meant that I wasn't training 25 hours a week.

And you know, probably having my best results possible as a first year, U23, but it probably was critical in allowing me to be balanced and excited about the sports, how fun to have experiences in school and to allow you know, my seriousness to ramp up slowly as those opportunities came.

So, by my senior year of college, I actually won the World Cup over on under 23 category and, you know, had the ability to do it full time and make a good living doing so, but also have the maturity, and I think that temperance that you develop over time to handle a full-time training load and have that be enough. And that is something that I think in many ways, I actually wouldn't say anything to myself at the time, because I think the ignorance was bliss that I didn't know that there were pros out there training 30 hours a week.

I was happy with my two rest days a week. I was going to school. I had balance, and I was a solid top 10 bike racer. So, there was no question of like, should I do this full time? But, I do think that period of time allowed me to build really slowly to build consistently, to mature enough, to be able to reach that top level and to have the consistency that I think is most important in not only making it to the top, but also hopefully having a lot of longevity in your career.

Stef: I love that. So beyond sort of your journey and how you went through college and kept your balance? What do you think has kept you in sport so long?

Kate: It's a good question. I mean, I love it. I think yeah, it's definitely, we, we talked earlier, have you ever considered not wanting to do it anymore? And I would say actually the only time that I've really thought about that was this fall after the Olympics, when I was just like physically and mentally destroyed, like, we had these two years, we had the pandemic and I think a lot of challenges that I responded to by doubling down and working harder and pushing forward.

And I think I just got exhausted. And so for me, there really was this moment of like, well, you know, I don't have to do this. And I think, It might come off as like, oh wow, it's crazy you would even consider that. But I think when you talk to elite athletes, all of them have these moments where you question what you're doing, and if you find an answer that's really powerful and that propels you forward, that you skate on that answer for a long time.

It's kind of that redefining of why. And for me, I think at the base of it, I love riding my bike. I think it's been one of the greatest gifts of my life. It has strengthened my relationships. It's been a way to see the world to explore new things. It's something that gives me joy and allows me to share joy, not just with those people that I know and love, but also with the entire cycling community.

And even beyond that, it allows me to be in conversations like this, where I you know, feel in some way that I'm here representing mountain biking. And it's something that. I think makes people's lives better. So if I can have even a tiny, positive impact on someone else's life by introducing them to the sport, or to be quite honest, if it can have a positive impact on my life to continue to pursue something that I love and that's challenging, and that brings out the best in me, then it's absolutely worth it.

Stef: I think what you said is so key in it, it actually ties back to like also when you're young, like got to keep it fun. Right? You got to keep the joy in like what you're doing. And so making sure you're keeping that in the front and center of what you're doing and why you're doing what you're doing.

 I also love that you mentioned that it has strengthened your relationships. Can you tell us a little bit more about that? Is there a specific moment mountain biking has helped you with your personal life.

Kate: Absolutely. I think there's so many I could pick. One of my favorites, I'm actually engaged, I'm getting married this year. And my fiance was the captain of the mountain bike team, my freshman year of high school. So, we didn't start dating until college, but that's how we met and that's what we love to do.

And for me, that's been a huge gift in my life not just to have that relationship, but also there's something special that happens when you do something that you love to do, and you're doing it with other people and they are loving it just as much as you are. And I think that's just such an authentic experience and such you know, my, my friend, Emily Kraus always says, "This is the stuff of life" when we're out on these happy hour rides on Friday nights.

And I really agree with her

Stef: Also, also a VIS expert!

Kate: A VIS great, great expert. She's a fun expert. as well. But for me, I think those experiences are really important, not just for my career as an athlete, but you know, for my life as a human being, and to keep that connection with what drew me to sport in the first place.

Stef: I love it. Okay. Well, let's talk about like the highs of these incredible moments and then like what you do afterwards to rest and recover and just what you've learned along the way, because I surely was not thinking about resting recovery when I was in high school. And I think it is an unlock for young girls, boys in sport to really understand how to use it as a tool, as part of your training.

 So, I just want to kind of talk a little bit about that but through the lens of all your incredible accomplishments. So after you graduated from Stanford in 2017, you obviously continued on through professional mountain biking.

And in that time you were ranked number one and under 23 mountain bike World Cup overall rankings, which is pretty incredible. And then in 2018, in 2019, you continued to compete in international competitions. Most notably being the 2018 Elite X CEO world champion, and the 2019 UCI mountain bike world champion.

So, incredible list of accomplishments that then led you to go compete in the 2020 Tokyo Olympics. So through that lens of all of those incredible accomplishments, how did you think about rest and recovery throughout your journey and what have you learned that other young girls can learn from your experience?

Kate: Yeah, I think, you know, this is such a broad topic. I feel like I have a lot to say on recovery. I think there's a lot of elements of it. I think there's kind of the more physical side of it. I use WHOOP to track everything from sleep to heart variability, and I find that having some data behind it, for me, just encourages me to set up really good habits.

 So that would be the first thing I would say, you know, get data, track things and set up really good habits that incentivize you to do the thing you want to do. And that helps you take care of your body. I think the biggest, low hanging fruit is sleep. My first year out of college, I spent a lot of time thinking about my sleep because it was the first year I felt like I could really control it and, you know, going to bed at the same time, waking up at the same time, having, you know, a dark cold, quiet place, having my phone, actually outside of the room, that's been a huge one for me.

You know, getting an alarm clock. So then my phone can be in the other room. There's all these small tweaks. That sounds so silly, but that set you up to just have a really good baseline, have really good baseline sleep.

Nutrition's another one have good baseline nutrition, kind of like what you keep in your house. What do you keep available if you need a snack on the go. I think all of these kinds of like planning and tracking things can be helpful in that way. I would also say there's the other side, which is the less tangible side, and I almost think of these as like recovery and rest.

 So recovery, I think of as like what I actively do to help my body recover, respond to training load. It might be foam rolling, the NormaTec boots, getting that sleep. And then rest is the category that I personally have struggled with the most, which is when you're not necessarily doing something performance related, but actually taking a break. I think that is , you know, for people who aren't athletes, it sounds really easy. I think when you're used to being on a training program, when your body's used to working out every day and when you're really driven and motivated, which is a super positive thing, you can really easily get into a mindset. Where everything has to be related to performance, so even if you're like I'm sitting on the couch because I'm going to be better for my workout tomorrow.

And, yes, you're still sitting on the couch, but I think there ,is, you know, still a lot of nervous system activation associated with that mindset of, okay, this is a performance enhancement rather than, you know, I need to just allow myself to rest and recover from this hard stimulus that I am exposing my body to every day by training.

So I don't know if I have like the perfect answer to that. For me, things that have really been beneficial have been, you know, spending time with family, spending time with friends, building in on a rest day, something else that I'm going to do. That's not riding my bike and it's not necessarily sitting around and doing a lot of recovery activities, but finding ways to, you know, relax and allow my focus to be on something else.

Stef: I love that you talked a little bit about your bedtime routine. So, if we can kind of go a little deeper there and just like walk us through when you were at the Olympics, what was your bedtime routine that you were sort of consistent about and share that with our audience? Because I think that is so key to like rest and recovery sleep is one of the biggest ones. So, how do you set yourself up for a good nights?

Kate: That I agree with you. It's one of the biggest ones. I started tracking sleep with WHOOP when I was, yeah, it was my first year out of college. And it was actually when they had like their beta programs. This is very early on. You had to charge it like every 10 minutes, but I think I learned a lot about what works for me, for me, having like half an hour before bed where I'm really winding down is important for me to feel restful when I'm like getting into bed, like feel tired, feel relaxed and like I can go to sleep.

And so that, that does take me half an hour between, you know, brushing your teeth, getting ready for bed, having your supplements. And then I usually like read a book. Maybe spend some time journaling or like, I used to have a little gratitude journal. I've been a little lazy on it lately, but highly recommend it.

 And then being able to, you know, take a few minutes to wind down and then fall asleep. I also think nutrition is a big thing that you can tap to improve your sleep. I like to make sure that I get that kind of healthy, great filling meal that I'm not like starving. But also my nutritionist recommends that I do, I do like a little protein snack.

It's kind of almost like a dessert, but less fun. And it's usually a Greek yogurt and I can like put whatever I want in it, whether it's nuts or chocolate chips or granola and all have that, not too close to bed, but usually like an hour after I have dinner. And I find that when I do, you know, meet those nutritional needs for the day, it's easier for me to fall asleep.

I'm a little bit. You know, more full and less less agitated when I, when I go to go to bed.

Elizabeth: Thank you for listening to the Voice in Sport podcast. My name is Elizabeth Martin, a soccer player at Emory University and producer of this week's episode. If you enjoy hearing from Kate Courtney and would like to get the chance to talk to athletes like her go to voiceinsport.com/join to sign up for a free membership and gain access to exclusive episodes, mentorship sessions, and other weekly content.

This week, we also want to give extra visibility to the way Kate utilizes her WHOOP band in training. We know that here at the Voice in Sport podcast team, we especially love the recovery metrics and sleep analysis tools. So, don't forget to follow us on Instagram, Twitter, and Tik Tok @voiceinsport, and let's get back to the episode.

Stef: When did you start really focusing on nutrition and what advice would you give to young girls that maybe aren't thinking about nutrition as like a tool to like really fuel their bodies for performance.

Kate: Yeah. Nutrition is a complicated one. And you know, it's a sensitive topic for some people, especially, you know, women in sport, I think have had kind of a mixed experience with using nutrition as a performance tool. I would say for me, the biggest performance enhancement I've had from focusing on nutrition is actually fueling my training.

So, you know, being able to work with a nutritionist and track what I was eating helped me figure out that actually I was not eating enough to fuel the gains that I could be getting from the training that I was doing. And I work with a nutritionist named Kyle that I've worked with for, oh, maybe five years now.

And over time, we adjust every year because my training changes every year, sometimes I'm able to take on more load and we need to meet that with adequate nutrition and high quality nutrition to allow me to get really, really strong. I think in the brief about what advice I would give or what story I would tell, and one of the stories that I love was working with Kyle actually between 2018 and 2019. And I came out of that world championship win in 2018, just unbelievably motivated. I changed teams. I was wearing the rainbow Jersey, and I was just so driven to prove that I really earned it. Like I belonged at the front of the race and it wasn't a one-off.

And so that kind of fall period into the spring, the next year, it was one of the most motivated times I've ever had in training. And I think that has to always be balanced. And so Kyle would text me and call me all the time and remind me like, okay, you need to eat a lot, you need to not just eat a lot, but fuel your performance in the right way.

You need to be making sure you're eating on rides, making sure you're getting your recovery shake. And in the spring I was super strong and I started to be like, Kyle, do I, should I be like leaning out? Should we do I need to be doing something? And he said until mid season, like you're not allowed to weigh yourself.

We're just going to see what happens. We're going to fuel. You're handling this load incredibly well. We're going to fuel it to the max and see what you can do. And I went into those first two World Cups, actually the highest race weight I've ever competed, and I won both of them by the biggest margin I've ever won a World Cup and they were climbing courses.

And I think that for me, was this really mindset shifting experience I like to share it with young audiences, because I think weight can play a factor in performance. It's definitely a part of it, but there's so many things that you can use nutrition for, and that you can use training for to get stronger and faster and more capable before weight becomes a factor. And actually at those races, the reason that I did so well is because I was stronger, you know, like I really like my body was really healthy. It had a lot of energy. I felt good. I was sleeping well. I handled my training load really well. And if you can do, you know, all the power than the weight it's not as important.

So, I think for me being able to emphasize strength capability and the ability to adapt in a healthy way to training has been a great gift that Kyle's given me.

Stef: Yeah, that's amazing. And I think we talked a lot, a lot about it at Voice in Sport, but just the importance of fueling your body and also just not comparing yourself to other people in your sport, because often those comparisons can drive you to think differently about yourself, and then that affects your performance and what you're doing with your eating.

And so, you know, I think just as you reflect back on your journey and think. young girls who are constantly on social media, right. Constantly seeing examples of what pro athletes look like or don't look like, you know, what would you say to girls today that might be struggling with body image or confidence, and then therefore it might be affecting their eating.

And then, you know, unfortunately it leads to a lot of injuries, bone issues, and a lot of girls losing their periods, but what would you say, you know, to those girls out there that might be struggling with body image and confidence?

Kate: Yeah, it's, you know, I'm always sensitive about this because I personally haven't struggled with a severe eating disorder, and I know that that's a very different experience than like the kind of more normal anxiety or, or difficulty that we all face in managing nutrition. So, I want to be really sensitive to that, but I think when it comes to sport for me, the thing I always think about is, you know, I don't train to be skinny. I train to be awesome at biking. And I train to be fast, and I train to be strong and I train to be a badass. And I think, you know, all of those characteristics are things that people around you will appreciate and encourage and celebrate you for. And that you'll feel really good about yourself.

Whereas, you know, weight, alone, isn't really something we value highly. You're not gonna you know, look back and be really grateful that you were thin in a moment rather than being strong and capable and being able to fuel your body to take you where you want to go.

Stef: And WHOOP has this specific menstruation cycle tracking option available. So, I'm curious to know if you use this feature and how does that inform the way you feel your body train or importantly recover.

Kate: Yeah, I think it's been really interesting and awesome to see so much more data and research and tools accessible around female health administration and training because it's something that, you know, when I was a junior was really not available, I think I said in an Instagram post the other day that women were like this like special case, like, oh, we can't possibly tell you what you should do. Because it's a special case. And I always got that when I was asking questions about hormones and birth control and what to do to manage all of those different things and make decisions on my own health as a junior. And I think that's really changing, which I appreciate not to mention people are having conversations about it and providing, you know, experiential input.

Because as we do know, there is a lot of variation. Everyone's experience is different, but I think the fact that WHOOP is not only providing these tools, but also it seems like really investing in research and investing in conversations around these topics to equip women with the best tools possible, with the best information possible, and with an avenue to ask questions or participate in research if there is something that we really just don't know about and that we want to look into.

Stef: Yeah, it's pretty incredible. The lack of participation in sports science and research by women athletes. So this is something we're really, really passionate about Voice in Sport and the Voice in Sport Foundation. And it's part of the reason why we partnered up with WHOOP, because I think we want to change this stat.

Like 3% of sports science done with women athletes is a disgrace. So we have so much work to do. And I'm just curious. You know for you. I know you're really passionate about this topic, too, what do you think the areas are that need to have more research done with female athletes included as part of the researchers.

Kate: Yeah, I think there's a lot of them, I ride a lot. We talked about Emily Kraus, she's a doctor at Stanford and recently launched a program called FASTR with them, and they've been doing some research, and I think their list is very comprehensive. It's nutrition RED-S, female triad, menstruation, mental health, bone density. I think there's a few others, but for me, I think all these topics need more research, and I'm a big believer, in general, that data is valuable in the aggregate, so you need kind of a complete picture. I feel this way about WHOOP, individually that, you know, if I look at my heart rate variability one day, it means nothing.

If I have a trend and I understand generally where it should be and what things might affect it, then all of a sudden it becomes a very powerful tool. And I think that's the case as well with research on female athletes where, you know, you have one data set with six athletes. It's not that valuable yet, but if we know that data point and then we get more and we get data points on nutrition and menstruation and nutrition and mental health and menstruation and RED-S, you know, all of these things together, we can start to triangulate trends that will allow us to make better decisions in every silo.

Stef: Absolutely. So, I have a question for you because this is something that we've talked about internally with a lot of the Voice in Sport members, many of which are in high school and college, and they struggle a little bit with data because data can be good and powerful, but sometimes too much data or obsessing it can actually be a trigger for some pretty bad behaviors. So how do you have the right mindset with absorbing and tracking all this data that you're able to with the various devices out there, but also, you know, when you're at college, sometimes you're asked to like go into different machines, like the body pod or the DexaFit machines, and you're getting almost inundated with like data.

How do you make sure that you have the right mindset that it is a part of, of the puzzle, but maybe not everything.

Kate: Yeah, it's a complicated thing to manage and definitely a more modern issue in sport because we do, we have, you know, not just the DEXA scans and, you know, quarterly testing, I think has always kind of been around, but this daily tracking of all of these metrics and availability right now for you to have data on everything that's happening is a pretty new thing.

I would say that there's something that we don't know how to track and to quantify. And that's like what the felt experiences in your body? What does it feel like in your body to ride at this pace? What does it feel like in the morning when you wake up? And that is what I call my informational advantage over my coaches.

You know, I wake up and I know what it feels like in my body and that's information that they don't have. And I have to find a way to one, get in touch with that, understand how to feel what's happening, how to be aware of what's happening, which we think is really accessible to athletes, but actually I think athletes become very disconnected. I'm very guilty of this in many cases where we try to use our minds to override our bodies and we get so used to doing that, that we forget when help signals are being set up from our body. So, one is understand what your body's trying to tell you, or just be able to listen and feel what's happening. And then two is to be able to interpret and translate that for your coaches and to relate it to that data. So, I'll give you an example. I think WHOOP recovery scores are hugely helpful. Again, it's something I look at as a trend, not just a day. So if I'm yellow for a week or red for a week, that's data point.

If I'm red for a day, Meh, I don't know. Maybe not. It might me something, it might not. And that's where, again, that felt experience comes in. So, I try as part of my morning routine, do some meditation. And during that, I try to think about how I feel. I settle in. I get in touch with my body and often I can guess what the WHOOP score will be, and I say that nine out of 10 days, I'm pretty spot on with what is. And if it's different than I think it's going to be then that's information too. So if I like think, I feel okay, but I have really crazy recovery score, that's really bad. And my respiratory rate's really high. Maybe I have some kind of illness coming on and that's something to keep your eye on.

 But again, that felt experience aspect of it, I think is so important to contextualizing the data. And more often than not, I'll wake up and say, I feel awesome. I feel really energized. And I check my phone, I'm in the green. Great. We're gone hard today. Or I wake up and I say, I feel like a dumpster fire, and I checked my whoop and I'm in the red and confirmed it's a rest day. So I look at it as more firepower, more information, but no single piece of data is ever the end all be all of what's happening

Stef: I think that's so powerful what you said. An informational advantage over my coaches is how you feel. I think that is incredibly powerful and empowering for a lot of our athletes at VIS who feel like maybe they don't have that power today. So, what advice would you give to girls who feel like they are essentially being told they have to hit a certain number, whether it is their body fat percentage or their weight, or data in general from a coach is just being used as a single indicator. How do you use your voice to speak up for yourself in that situation?

Kate: Absolutely. That's a tough situation. And I think, hopefully they're with coaches that are aware of individual variation and aware of training cycles and all of those things that are so important to contextualizing the data. I would say in terms of my relationship with my coach who writes my schedule, that started out certainly as more of a prescription, he would like write it and my job is to execute it perfectly. And I think, you know, I've only really been able to bring that nuance into it more recently in my career, and I think that's part of maturing as an athlete. But I would encourage and empower young athletes to listen to your body and trust that feeling. I think, you know, it's easy to feel like you always have to push.

 But I like to say that, you know, it's always better to be a little under-trained than over-trained. So if you have that feeling of something's telling you it's not right. I would say, bring that up with your coach, whether or not it results in like a rest day or whether you slightly tweak things or whether your coach has an idea about what might be going on.

 You never know, oftentimes, I'll say, Hey coach, I'm really tired and they'll say, yeah, it's on purpose. So you know, it's not always going to be , well now we have to like, do exactly what I think, it's more like providing that information, providing that feedback to your coach in a way that's honest and that they can trust and that they can work off of to better your program.

 With nutrition, I think, because that is such a difficult thing to manage. And there are so many emotions wrapped up in it, especially I think for female athletes, I feel like personally, you know, in the media, there's a lot of conversations about females' bodies in a weird way.

 I feel like if you get really strong as a female athlete, all of a sudden you're big and bulky. And if you get really strong as a male athlete, you're strong. So, you know, there are a lot more things involved externally in that because it's something that other people see and comment on. My best advice is to get a nutritionist, have a sports psychologist, have even a parent or friend that someone you really trust and that you can talk about it with because for me, I think from the ages of kind of 15 to 18 people were so afraid to talk to me about nutrition because they were afraid that I was going to have an eating disorder immediately that I felt like it was something I couldn't ask questions about. I couldn't talk about like, what does it mean to be lean and strong?

Like, do I need to lose weight to be good at my sport? Do I not? And for me having a nutritionist that I know understands the performance aspects, but also is looking out for me as an athlete and he believes in me and he's on board for my goals.

He's not trying to say, oh, train less, eat way more. Sit on the couch. Don't race, he's saying, here's how we're going to accomplish this goal. And to accomplish it, I need to be healthy. And so I really trust him. And I think you know, I'd recommend finding someone that you trust and, you know, gets the performance side of it as well.

 Because I think that can be really empowering to lay it out and say, okay, I want to train to be as strong and as healthy as possible. And I also need to be lean for this race in August. And that's how I approach it. And I think It's something I pay a lot of attention to at times it's something that is more important or less important, but I have a really great plan and support structure to make sure that it always stays healthy and it always stays in control. And serves me not just as an athlete in the moment, but as a person for the long run.

Stef: I love it. And if you're out there listening to this and you feel like you don't have a support system, that is why we're here. That is why we are building this incredible platform so these girls have access to nutritionists and sports psychologists and find somebody they connect with because you might go once.

You might not connect with that one person, try another person, right? Find somebody that you feel comfortable talking to. And that's really what I want to end on with you is talking about your journey more on the sports psychology side and just how you have developed this understanding over your journey of the mind and body connection.

You know, this is so important to you also to us is like this holistic experience of being an athlete. And that means you think about your mind as much as you think about, you know, the performance side of things and physically what you're doing with your body. So I know you started seeing a sports psychologist and that really helped shape things for you.

Can you kind of back up a little bit for us and just talk about that journey with like, finding your way to thinking about mental toughness as a skill and really focusing on building mental strength and sharing that journey with us.

Kate: Yeah, I think the story I told earlier about those, kind of challenging and then rewarding World Cup experiences for certainly what drew me into sports psychology and to try to kind of tap that lever of performance. And it has worked really well for me over the years and helped me develop skills, like goal setting and you know, process first outcome goal setting, and being able to process failure and learn from it as well as to be able to enjoy and then learn from success as well.

 I would say more recently I've gained an understanding of the connection of the mind and body that you know, for me in this past year and in 2020 and 2021, there was just so much happening. And there were a lot of challenges that I had to overcome as an athlete from the pandemic, which I know everyone had to deal with, but fires, we had the Olympic speed delayed.

I had some family losses. I broke my arm. I had all of these challenges leading into the Olympic games, not to mention the pressure of having qualified in 2019 being ranked number one in the world, and then having everything put on pause. So I think for me I really thought of that experience at the Olympics and the second half of last year as something that, you know, I needed better mental skills for, I needed mental toughness for.

But really, there's also this other side of things where it is experiential and your body, you know, kind of keeps score of what's happening. And, you know, after the Olympics, I had a blood test and my cortisol was 50, which if you don't know, the range for cortisol is very high and not good at all. And I just was in this like state of prolonged high stress and it really affected my ability to compete at the top level.

And I'm sure like, you know, you can't separate the two, obviously stress is partially mental, but it's also hugely physical. And we know that exercise is stress. That, you know, pressure has stress, all of these different elements of performance can tax your whole system. So, for me, I think that was a really interesting experience in starting to understand how these two things are related. And then it's not just training and it's not just mindset, but it's some kind of alchemy of the two where you're pushing the right amount and using your mind to kind of get you over the goalpost. But you're also taking care of your body and setting yourself up with the training, the tools, and critically that rest to be able to have a good race experience.

And that's something I spent a lot of time working on this fall. I got my cortisol levels down or back in like the 10 range. So that's a really positive thing. But I think also reconnecting with, you know, what does it feel like to train? What kinds of sensations am I looking for in races and how do I really set myself up not just cognitively, not just with goals and a plan to have that happen, but also physiologically with enough energy and resources to be able to reach those goals in a race.

Stef: Well, you ended up getting 15th at the Olympics, which is still really incredible, but I'm sure disappointing that you're not at the top of the podium in that moment. So, how do you deal with disappointment and, you know, frustration after an event where maybe you didn't get to the goal or the expectation that you were hoping to have coming in, because this happens to all of us as athletes, maybe not as quite at the highest level as you are at, but you know, we all face disappointment. What's the right mindset? What have you learned from your sports psychologist to work through those moments and still come back motivated?

Kate: Yeah. I think it's, it's an ebb and flow and it's a process there. Let's say I have two more seasons and I'm standing back on the top of the podium. It's really easy to look back and say, oh, you know, like I never lost my motivation. I just kind of picked myself up and focus on my love of the sport and had fun.

 But I think it's much harder to do that in process. And I think that's okay. We don't often hear those stories, but you know, for me, it's been a slow process of, okay, what happened? Why did it happen? What did I not like about that experience, and what do I want to do differently in the future? And that has taken a long time and a lot of work, and we still don't know what's going to happen.

I don't know if I'm going to show up and be back in kind of the racing form that I look for at the spring races in just a couple of weeks, or if I'm going to have some work to do still. But I think what I learned at the Olympics is, you know, you mentioned like what place I finished in. And like, it was not what I went for and it was not maybe a representation of what I'm capable of as an athlete. But I think what bothered me the most is just like the way that I felt in that race. And I think when you have these experiences of competing where, you know, you're on your edge and you're pushing yourself and you're able to push through that barrier and find some ease or opportunity or breakthrough in that struggle. That is what draws us all to sports in my opinion. And it doesn't matter if you're at the Olympics or if you're at a local 5k, that is a really transformative, empowering, amazing experience. And so for me, understanding that was almost more disappointing than not getting the results I wanted has really encouraged me to think about what are the elements that set you up to be able to go to that edge and to be able to walk that line and push yourself, but do so in a way that builds you up and not kind of breaks you down.

So that's really my focus now in sport, and I think it's something that I hope will make me a more fierce and more capable competitor this year. But I also, you know, really critically hope that it will enable me to have more positive, constructive race experiences, because I know that when I feel good mentally and I feel good physically in a bike race, I'm very dangerous.

Stef: Yeah. And back to what you said, like, regardless of like the place, that's how you feel again, it's like, regardless of the data, in some cases, how are you feeling? You have to kind of like pay attention to both of those things. And I think just overarching, that's what you've talked a lot about today. So, you know, I think it's really powerful and you, you also have this documentary series Rising that I wanted to call out.

And one of those episodes mentions that a typical bike ride may last up to four hours. So can you share with us, you know, just kind of three tips on how do you maintain focus?

Kate: Yeah, bike races, this can be like six hours. So they're pretty long. Four is like a more common occasion for me. That happens definitely weekly. My tips are one, pick a bakery to ride to that bakery. Try to aim it for two hours approximately away from home three turnaround in return. So that's the general four hour ride structure.

Stef: Love it.

Kate: No, it's kind of a joke, but really for me, I actually Love those rides. I think making it. an adventure, whether that's, you know, getting accompanied, having a destination, having great snacks, making it a cool route. I usually like to involve a lot of dirt in that route. I think all of those things can help keep it fun and help keep you relaxed because oftentimes those rides are just base volume. And if you think of them as an adventure and you're able to enjoy it, I think they count twice as much.

Stef: Absolutely, I love it. okay. So our two final questions on the Voice in Sport podcast, we always come back to really what we're aiming to try to do here, which is to keep girls in sport and change the future of women's sports. So, what is one single piece of advice you would tell a younger girl in sport?

Kate: My best piece of advice is to focus on your trajectory rather than your starting point. I think for me as a young athlete, I wasn't quite sure exactly where I was going in sport. I didn't have huge ambitions, but I was really able because of that to focus on just getting a little bit better. And I think if you can get a little bit better every day, it can take you to pretty amazing places, as well as enable you to be more joyful and more confident throughout that process.

Stef: I love it. And what is one thing you would like to see changed for the future of women's sports?

Kate: I think hearing female athletes respected, not just as female athletes, but as athletes is my hope in the future. I've seen some changes like this, especially in cross country mountain biking. It's a sport where we race on the same courses on the same days, and for roughly the same amount of time as the men that I started to get, you know, recognize as a good mountain biker, not just a good female mountain biker, and there's more young boys that look up to me as well as young girls.

And I really hope this trend continues and you know, continues even more so for the next generation where they will be respected, not just for being good for a girl or good for the women's category, but being badass athletes who are capable and strong and that we can all look up to

Stef: I love it and so important. Let's talk about equality for a second. I mean, is there a quality in the sport of mountain biking? I'm so curious on how you would answer that question, like how it compares to other sports between men's and women's is it equal? Is there equal prize money? Do you feel like it's equal as a female athlete in the mountain biking community?

Kate: It's an interesting question. I think the generation before me, Leah Davison, who I mentioned earlier and Georgia Gould, and a lot of women kind of in that era, worked really hard to get equal prize money. So if a race posts a prize money, that's not equal at this point, they will get roasted, which is exactly how it should be.

 So prize money is equal. And as I mentioned, we race on the same courses, usually on the same day and for similar amount of time as the men. So the structure, I think. You know, ripe for the opportunity for equality, but I think there's a lot that happens behind the scenes that still underscores that we have a long way to go.

I think, you know, base salary contracts are not the same for the men's and women's side. There's also not as much depth in the women's field in terms of pay. But I think many of these things are growing with the sport. I do acknowledge that, you know, five years ago, the women's field would be less than half the size of the men's. But as of last season, we had over a hundred women and a couple of the World Cups. So, you know, I think the sport is really growing and changing and the women's field is just as exciting. Some say more exciting than the men's and I'm hoping that the opportunities, the coverage and the compensation really track with that growth in the sport.

Stef: Absolutely. I think it's something that we don't talk about enough, but a lot of what comes down to athletes wellbeing and their longterm journey in their sport is sponsorship dollars and what the leagues or the associations are paying. So in your case, it's the teams that are sponsoring your know, the bike teams, but also the brands that are bringing in the money.

So we've got to continue to push there and, and really advocate for women to get equal sponsorship dollars. I think it's huge. And it's something that I look forward to being a part of with Voice in Sport, in the future.

Kate: Yeah, very important. And I think definitely tracking in the right direction, at least.

Stef: Amazing. Well, thank you so much, Kate, for joining us on the Voice in Sport podcast, all of your advice was incredibly inspiring and we can't wait to continue to watch and cheer you on in your journey.

Kate: Thank you so much.

Stef: This week's episode was produced and edited by VIS creator, Elizabeth Martin, a soccer player from Emory University. Kate's journey reminds us that mental strength is a skill that we must continue to build over the years. As athletes, we are always balancing, taking care of our mental health, nutrition, and our bodies, and so it can be easy at times to forget about recovery and sleep. It's also so important that we remember that each of us are on our own path. Kate emphasized that it's necessary for each of us to focus on our own trajectories and the ways we can improve ourselves without comparing ourselves to other athletes.

Whether they're coming off of a tough loss or battling the setbacks of COVID-19 pandemic, coming back to our why in our sport is so important to remember. You can follow Kate on Instagram @kateplusfate or on Twitter @sparkleaddict. Please subscribe to the Voice in Sport podcast, give us a rating and review on apple podcasts, and send this episode to a friend that you think might enjoy the conversation.

 You can also follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and Tik Tok @voiceinsport. See you next week on the Voice in Sport podcast.